There is some gleeful wondering as to why I liked this post so much. Well, obviously, because it has some really basic Reformed 101 statements that everyone should already know.
Of course, it also ends with false statements about other Reformed believers currently being wrongfully separated from their Reformed brothers under the label “Federal Vision.”
The problem with the FV formulation of the teaching is that it supposes “saving graces” are communicated by virtue of this temporal election, contrary to what John Owen teaches above.
Well, these sorts of false statements are regularly manufactured and circulated, especially at the website where Rev. Winzer has decided to post. I am used to this by now and didn’t think I should allow it to spoil the rest of the post for me. Misrepresentations are too common to worry about these days. Common sense and common knowledge about the Reformed heritage on the other hand, are worth linking.
Mark,
Is there any substantial difference or would you add anything to Winzer’s post on temporary election? I feel like you are in pretty much in agreement with Winzer. But maybe it doesn’t matter because i think some people are thoroughly convince you believe in something else regardless of what you say (i would hate to be in your shoes).
Blessings,
Dan
you can say that again
Mark,
Perhaps you’d also like to recommend folks read these posts:
Conditional Election – Where does FV differ from Historical Reformed Usage? by way of fully disclosure and that you are very much not in agreement with Rev. Winzer on this and that we are not a bunch of trolls with sharp teeth looking for opportunities to misrepresent.
Regarding election, I think an apt analogy (since Paul uses it) is ethnic Israel’s election, or “chosen-ness,” if you will. Consider 1 Cor 10:1-14.
“I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness …
“We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall … Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.”
The question is, was Israel really a chosen people? Those that were overthrown in the wilderness–were they chosen? Yes, of course! But an entire generation of chosen people did not reach the promised land. They same may be said of the Church and election. Elect, yes, in a visible, objective sense. But perhaps not in an eschatological one.
~Chris