Some weird things about indeterminists

Ok, I’ve seen this, floating around, and I have to ask some questions. Lets just lay aside any challenges from Scripture for a moment, OK?

First off, did anyone catch the reference to Psalm 40 in the description of the creation of Adam. What an ironic comparison. Bono sings (after David) about God lifting him up out of the miry clay to give God all credit. But the whole point of the song is that there is no comparison: creation happens to us without our permission but not the second creation. There is more than one direction to go with this. For one thing, I wonder if an affirmation of ultimate human autonomy will really allow for even creation to have been involuntary. In order to account for original sin, Origen had to invent pre-existence. I don’t think the principles promoted in this song can allow their promoters to do otherwise than to make us participants in our own creation. That’s my opinion, for what it is worth.

Secondly, can a firm belief in human autonomy really stand up with an affirmation that all nature is under God’s direct and minute control. Frankly, I thought the statements about the non-personal parts of creation sounded like only a Calvinist could craft them. So you have freedom, but your blood pressure, your local weather, and the nutritional content of your food are all in God’s hand? By this definition the “free” part of a man would be a rather minute part indeed. What about genetics. Is that part of God’s creation?

Third, look at the singers and their clothes and their style. Does anyone find in this a real believable presentation of human freedom? For easily 99.9% of the singers’ web audience, they could no more appreciate the music, feel comfortable in the clothes, or use the hand gestures and facial expressions as spontaneous displays of real emotion, than they could fly to the moon or breathe underwater. In a sense, I can see why they would need a massive doctrine of free will because they have to expect most people they meet to utterly reinvent themselves and everything they are. On the other hand, for exactly the same reason, I don’t find their claims for the doctrine to be all that convincing. People who dress and act in such a way to bring the words, “Stepford Wives” spontaneously to mind, are not going to be very persuasive in denying that human beings run on programming of some sort. Dating myself here: anyone remember Steve Taylor’s song, “I want to be a clone”? Clonliness is next to godliness, right? And if all the clones are given a message of free will then they will all support it.

7 thoughts on “Some weird things about indeterminists”

Mark Kodak January 5, 2007 at 1:42 pm

I found the video rather creepy. Like that statue of a clown in an antique shop when I was a kid that I thought was watching me wherever I went in the store.

How far does Calvinism go though ? I wonder if God predestined the writing and performance of the song as the product of human wills ? Does God ordain such silliness to reveal how silly we are ?

Dan 4:33 Immediately the word was fulfilled against Nebuchadnezzar. He was driven from among men and ate grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair grew as long as eagles’ feathers, and his nails were like birds’ claws.

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Kevin January 5, 2007 at 2:36 pm

Hey I was a PCC student ‘back in the day’ and I knew a lot of people who were in the singing groups, let me tell you every gesture, nod of the head, etc is scripted. This “freedom” extends to what tie is worn by the guys to match the girls dresses for the evening.

Every word spoken to introduce every song is a script, every “sponanious” reply to every question by potential students (and more importatly parents) is scripted. In my day (& prob. still) Becca picked out all of the clothes worn by all singing groups even the “off duty” outfits are a uniform.

Not one aspect of the “freedom” in the song extends to the singer.

BTW 18+ years on and the clothes have changed but the gestures are the same! Creepy!

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