It is certainly true that when children of believers reach the age of discernment [who never repent or believe] they will have alienated themselves from God and destroyed utterly the truth of baptism.

But this is not to say that our Lord has not elected them
and separated them from others
in order to grant them His salvation.

Otherwise, it would be in vain for Saint Paul to say that a child of a believing father or mother is sanctified, who would be impure if he were born of and descended from unbelievers (1 Cor. 7:14).

~John Calvin Treatises Against the Anabaptists and Against the Libertines pg. 52

Thanks, Steve. 

The picture we get from both sets of partisans in the debate over the so-called “New Perspective,” is that the Reformers compared Roman Catholic theology and the soteriology of the Jews and said that Jesus and Paul preached grace as opposed to such merit legalism. Defenders of NP say this is where the Reformers were mistaken (though plenty of them also believe that the Reformers’ use of Paul was a correct application of his doctrine to the heresy of works-salvation as forumlated by medieval Roman Catholicism). Opponents of NP say the reformers were right to make this comparison. Defenders of NP say the real problem between Paul and his Jewish opponents was a form of nationalistic pride that said they were especially favored by God simply because they belonged to Israel. Israel was elect by God and they were showing that they belonged to Israel by being circumcised, keeping the Sabbath etc. Opponents of NP say that the real problem with Judaism was a theory of merit salvation.

Now, it is no secret that I think the defenders of NP have, more or less, the much stronger case. And, of course, I do not mean they have a stronger case from non-canonical historical documents from first-century Judaism. I mean they have a much stronger case from the Bible. If the Jews were predominately merit legalists, then Jesus and Paul are incompetent theologians. We have Jesus’ woes against the Pharisees on record in Matthew and Luke. Where do we ever find him condeming them for teaching a soteriology of earning justification by good works? If merit-legalism was the problem in Israel than this seems like a strange way of confronting it:

He [John the Baptist] said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”And the crowds asked him, “What then shall we do?” And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.” Tax collectors also came to be baptized and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than you are authorized to do.” Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”

As the people were in expectation, and all were questioning in their hearts concerning John, whether he might be the Christ, John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

So with many other exhortations he preached good news [literally: “gospel] to the people.

Is this the perfect message for proto-Roman Catholic merit legalists?

Yet now I’m wondering if we’re not leaving out part of the picture about the Reformation. Is the “New” in “New Perspective” giving us amnesia? What if there was plenty of evidence that the Reformers thought that the Roman Catholics were guilty of corporate pride–of thinking that they were favored by God simply because they belonged to the elect people, the Church? And what if they compared this error to the error of the Jews thinking they were favored by God simply because of the Temple or the Abrahamic Covenant, etc.?

Is that not exactly what we find?

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, 4.2.3

In the present day, therefore, the presence of the Romanists is just the same as that which appears to have been formerly used by the Jews, when the Prophets of the Lord charged them with blindness, impiety, and idolatry. For as the Jews proudly vaunted of their temple, ceremonies, and priesthood, by which, with strong reason, as they supposed, they measured the Church, so, instead of the Church, we are presented by the Romanists with certain external masks, which often are far from being connected with the Church, and without which the Church can perfectly exist. Wherefore, we need no other argument to refute them than that with which Jeremiah opposed the foolish confidence of the Jewsónamely, ìTrust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord are theseî (Jer. 7:4). The Lord recognises nothing as his own, save when his word is heard and religiously observed. Thus, though the glory of God sat in the sanctuary between the cherubim (Ezek. 10:4), and he had promised that he would there have his stated abode, still when the priests corrupted his worship by depraved superstitions, he transferred it elsewhere, and left the place without any sanctity. If that temple which seemed consecrated for the perpetual habitation of God, could be abandoned by God and become profane, the Romanists have no ground to pretend that God is so bound to persons or places, and fixed to external observances, that he must remain with those who have only the name and semblance of a Church. This is the question which Paul discusses in the Epistle to the Romans, from the ninth to the twelfth chapter. Weak consciences were greatly disturbed, when those who seemed to be the people of God not only rejected, but even persecuted the doctrine of the Gospel. Therefore, after expounding doctrine, he removes this difficulty, denying that those Jews, the enemies of the truth, were the Church, though they wanted nothing which might otherwise have been desired to the external form of the Church. The ground of his denial is, that they did not embrace Christ. In the Epistle to the Galatians, when comparing Ishmael with Isaac, he says still more expressly, that many hold a place in the Church to whom the inheritance does not belong, because they were not the offspring of a free parent. From this he proceeds to draw a contrast between two Jerusalems, because as the Law was given on Mount Sinai, but the Gospel proceeded from Jerusalem, so many who were born and brought up in servitude confidently boast that they are the sons of God and of the Church; nay, while they are themselves degenerate, proudly despise the genuine sons of God. Let us also, in like manner, when we hear that it was once declared from heaven, ìCast out the bondmaid and her son,î trust to this inviolable decree, and boldly despise their unmeaning boasts. For if they plume themselves on external profession, Ishmael also was circumcised: if they found on antiquity, he was the first-born: and yet we see that he was rejected. If the reason is asked, Paul assigns it (Rom. 9:6), that those only are accounted sons who are born of the pure and legitimate seed of doctrine. On this ground God declares that he was not astricted to impious priests, though he had made a covenant with their father Levi, to be their angel, or interpreter (Mal. 2:4); nay, he retorts the false boast by which they were wont to rise against the Prophets–namely, that the dignity of the priesthood was to be held in singular estimation. This he himself willingly admits: and he disputes with them, on the ground that he is ready to fulfil the covenant, while they, by not fulfilling it on their part, deserve to be rejected. Here, then, is the value of succession when not conjoined with imitation and corresponding conduct: posterity, as soon as they are convicted of having revolted from their origin, are deprived of all honour; unless, indeed, we are prepared to say, that because Caiaphas succeeded many pious priests (nay, the series from Aaron to him was continuous), that accursed assembly deserved the name of Church. Even in earthly governments, no one would bear to see the tyranny of Caligula, Nero, Heliogabalus, and the like, described as the true condition of a republic, because they succeeded such men as Brutus, Scipio, and Camillus. That in the government of the Church especially, nothing is more absurd than to disregard doctrine, and place succession in persons. Nor, indeed, was anything farther from the intention of the holy teachers, whom they falsely obtrude upon us, than to maintain distinctly that churches exist, as by hereditary right, wherever bishops have been uniformly succeeded by bishops. But while it was without controversy that no change had been made in doctrine from the beginning down to their day, they assumed it to be a sufficient refutation of all their errors, that they were opposed to the doctrine maintained constantly, and with unanimous consent, even by the apostles themselves. They have, therefore, no longer any ground for proceeding to make a gloss of the name of the Church, which we regard with due reverence; but when we come to definition, not only (to use the common expression) does the water adhere to them, but they stick in their own mire, because they substitute a vile prostitute for the sacred spouse of Christ. That the substitution may not deceive us, let us, among other admonitions, attend to the following from Augustine. Speaking of the Church, he says, ìShe herself is sometimes obscured, and, as it were, beclouded by a multitude of scandals; sometimes, in a time of tranquillity, she appears quiet and free; sometimes she is covered and tossed by the billows of tribulation and trial (August. ad Vincent. Epist. 48). As instances, he mentions that the strongest pillars of the Church often bravely endured exile for the faith, or lay hid throughout the world.

Calvin does not stop here and I’m sure we will find many such arguments in other Reformers (I’m using the word here to include all Protestants) as well. “Do not say we have Abraham as our Father” became “Do not say we have the Pope as Christ’s vicar.”

Just something to think about.

The PCA ad hoc committee on the Federal Vision has  condemned what was taught at the Auburn Avenue conference?  According to our Southern Baptist pastors there in Greenville this has already been done.  I’m surprised Melton didn’t mention this bombshell.

Of course, I’m not surprised by the outcome or anything.  I just thought I would know about it before two Baptist radio preachers reported on a talk show.  Have I missed a ByFaithOnline update?

I just listened to the first caller. I don’t know where Mike is coming from, but I thought he sounded pretty sharp.

I thought Waters’ answer about “heretical” was quite reasonable (here). But it raises the issue of how elastically one can spread the net by redefining “out of accord with the Westminster standards.”

Because Waters does not, ever or for the most part, even really allege any disagreements with the Westminster Standards. Rather, in his lectures and in their published transcripts, he continually discusses the “practical” consequences that he thinks one ought to follow from affirming this or that statement in the Westminster Confession (to see what I mean, search for the word, “practical” here. This interview was no different. He spent most of his time declaring how we ought to preach.

The bottom line for Waters, his books, lecture, and presbytery report, is that there is an oral tradition to the Westminster standards that must be followed. And since this is judicially unenforceable, infusing the PCA with enough flexibility to enforce the issue anyway, requires a great deal of informal propaganda work.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.

FYI, here is one of Guy Waters’ targets speaking back to him:

1. Guy Waters
2. Scholarship on stilts.
3. Moses the blender.
4. Three Extra Eggs in the Pudding
5. Federal Vision Assurance
6. You Betcher
7. Salty Dogs & Crusty Lutherans
8. Confessional Laxity Over At Mississippi Valley
9. A Tulip From Calvin’s Garden
10. Making the Necessary Qualifications
11. Talmudic Layers of Revivalism
12. Last Post on Waters

Well, I’ve listened to the interview. I wonder if Guy Waters understands what he sounds like to those outside his own Southern Presbyterian / Baptist convergence zone.*

His two big point were that “the Federal Vision theology” does not allow for assurance and that the Federal Vision theology is dangerous because it will allow too many people to have assurance too easily. It seems that, according to his version of “mainstream covenant theology” our preaching is supposed to be filled with questionings to make sure that people are continually asking themselves if they’ve been truly born again.

This, to me, is a pretty big sign that Waters is backing somewhere it won’t be comfortable to be. He is pitting the requirement for a “conversion experience” against the doctrine justification by faith. Encouraging people to trust God’s promises in the gospel encourages saving faith and nothing else.

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.  God is trustworthy, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
(*I realize that “baptistic” has been raised in its threat level to some sort of horrible slur word–but I’m simply describing a situation in which a “mainstream covenant theologian” just happens to fit, without any sign of friction, on a Baptist radio show, to attack fellow Reformed teachers.)

Guy Waters was interviewed on the Federal Vision on a Greenville Radio Station. You can download the interview here. You can read the summary blog of the radio program here.

Hat tip goes to Melton Duncan, whose comment about the “just plain folks,” is interesting since those would be the people I work with every day. Just maybe how the issue is described to them has some bearing on the matter.

I think we have to.  Don’t we?

This is what prompted the thought.  We are beginning to see what one’s past will do to one in politics in the blogging age.  But the complaint was:

An angry Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, which counts 350,000 members, criticized Edwards for not firing the two bloggers. Donohue also promised a nationwide public relations campaign in newspapers, magazines and Catholic publications to tell voters what the candidate had done.

“When Mel Gibson got drunk and made anti-Semitic remarks, he paid a price for doing so. When Michael Richards got angry and made racist remarks, he paid a price for doing so. … But John Edwards thinks the same rules don’t apply to him, which is why he has chosen to embrace foul-mouthed, anti-Catholic bigots on his payroll,” Donohue said.

This is what I mean.  To recite a lesson I’m beginning to learn: nothing is worse in the face of a hostile audience than acting outraged in the face of outrageous behavior.  You only look like a whiner.  And the media will paint you as “angry” unless you’re positively cheerful.

While Donohue has to deal with different sorts of communication venues, so I’m not criticizing him for being unable to do this, I personally think Dawn Eden’s approach is great because she writes as if she’s laughing about it.

Pandagon blogger Amanda Marcotte, a familiar name to readers of this blog, whose online persona caused controversy after John Edwards hired her as his campaign blogmistress, has issued an apology of sorts:

My writings on my personal blog Pandagon on the issue of religion are generally satirical in nature and always intended strictly as a criticism of public policies and politics. My intention is never to offend anyone for his or her personal beliefs, and I am sorry if anyone was personally offended by writings meant only as criticisms of public politics. Freedom of religion and freedom of expression are central rights, and the sum of my personal writings is a testament to this fact.

I guess it’s nice to know that all those times her blog referred to Our Lord and Saviour as “Jeebus” — in 114 blog entries to date (the most recent last Sunday) — she was only kidding.

A search of Pandagon archives shows that Amanda has yet to devise a similarly ha-ha name for Mohammed. Well, give her time; she’s been on the Edwards campaign for only a week and a half.

And yeah, I’m sure this is a lesson I should learn.  I know.  Here’s my first baby step.

🙂

This is not meant to exclude any other nutshell answers (if they’re accurate), but I have one that I think goes a long way to explaining what is happening.

B. B. Warfield once described Aurelius Augustine, Bishop of Hippo as a man whose Ecclesiology and Soteriology were in conflict. And he further described the Reformation as the triumph of Augustine’s soteriology over his ecclesiology. Finally, he defined the essence of Reformed orthodoxy as the confession that salvation was exclusively an immediate operation (no ecclesiology necessary) of the Spirit on the soul of an individual.

In the PCA, there are two kinds of people (highly inaccurate and yet a helpful model nonetheless):

1. Those who find in Warfield’s claims their very identity as Protestants.
2. Those who find Warfield’s claims to be both unfounded in logic (there is no necessary conflict) and in history (Neither John Calvin nor his heirs through the Westminster Assembly to Turrettin are Reformed Protestants by Warfield’s theological definition).

But here’s the problem: no one in the two groups actually thinks Augustine was right in everything he said either soteriologically (some think they do because the insist against history that Augustine was orthodox in his doctrine of justification) or ecclesiologically.

1. Thus, the impulse of group 1 is to continually accuse group 2 of beliefs they do not hold. Group 1 has two intellectual traps to fall into. They accept the “logic” that one must choose between Augustine’s soteriology and ecclesiology, so those who choose to remain in the broad form of his ecclesiology must reject his soteriology.
2. Members of group 1 assume a statement of appreciation for his ecclesiology means they can dig up any error of the past (“Romanist”) and freely apply it to members of group 2.

Thus, they are continually frustrated as particular facts are brought forth to show that the real world doesn’t match the world as they think it must be.

Guy Waters has written a book on the New Perspective in which he makes a foundational claim that backs up my analysis. Ultimately in religion there are only two destinies, Geneva or Rome.

Warfield marches on.

Someone just reminded me, the reason I feel positive about Pilgrim’s Progress is because I was given a comic book to read about it as a seven- or eight-year-old. Christian in armor fighting a flame throwing demon. What’s not to like?

John Bunyan set me on a course in life that headed me directly into Dungeons and Dragons as a teenager.